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	<title>Comments on: Teaching Quantum Theory</title>
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	<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/</link>
	<description>Mathematics -- Physics -- Quantum Theory</description>
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		<title>By: Changes &#124; Matt Leifer</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>Changes &#124; Matt Leifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-390</guid>
		<description>[...] OK, it is time to announce some changes that I alluded to in comments to an earlier post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] OK, it is time to announce some changes that I alluded to in comments to an earlier post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Changes &#171; Quantum Quandaries</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Changes &#171; Quantum Quandaries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 02:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-145</guid>
		<description>[...] Changes May 7, 2007 at 9:53 pm &#124; In Blog Admin &#124;  OK, it is time to announce some changes that I alluded to in comments to an earlier post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Changes May 7, 2007 at 9:53 pm | In Blog Admin |  OK, it is time to announce some changes that I alluded to in comments to an earlier post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-158</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not about to become a woman or something, I trust.

Or a mormon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not about to become a woman or something, I trust.</p>
<p>Or a mormon.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Leifer</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Leifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-160</guid>
		<description>[Note to Ian: Since I&#039;m on wordpress.com and not running wordpress on my own server, I don&#039;t have a lot of control over what features are available.  However, stay tuned as big changes are afoot in the not too distant future.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Note to Ian: Since I'm on wordpress.com and not running wordpress on my own server, I don't have a lot of control over what features are available.  However, stay tuned as big changes are afoot in the not too distant future.]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Leifer</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Leifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-161</guid>
		<description>Mark,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Looking back at all the QM courses I took including those in my undergrad I would like to make the following remark, I really really do not care about interpretations.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Really?  Then why are you reading a blog about the foundations of quantum theory?  Seriously though, no one can be expected to care about everything they learn in their undergraduate courses, but that doesn&#039;t mean that they shouldn&#039;t be taught it.  From my point of view, I can say that solving endless variations on the atomic model with ever more sophisticated interactions included via perturbation theory was not my idea of a fun party, but it was good for me to learn it nonetheless.

My view on foundations is that it will be useful for physicists to have at least a little more understanding than is the norm at present, because these issues become important when applying quantum theory in new regimes.  For example, the arguments that raged over the quantum Zeno effect for several years could have been avoided if physicists had a more sophisticated understanding of the meaning and limited applicability of the projection postulate.  That&#039;s just one example, but there are many others involving things like entanglement, naive reasoning about the &quot;path&quot; that a particle takes in an interferometer, macroscopic superpositions, etc.  As experiments become more sophisticated these things become more relevant and foundational studies are the right way to understand them.  Interpretations are a relevant component of this because they can often help to understand the errors in naive intuitions.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I can’t say one interpretation is better than another because they do not lead a better theory with more predictive power. Also, can interpretations be falsified by experimental results?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Even if they don&#039;t they may lead to a new understanding of how to apply the theory domains where it is unclear how to proceed - quantum gravity being one of the main candidates.  Newton&#039;s laws are (roughly) equivalent to Hamiltonian and Lagrangian mechanics.  Does this mean you shouldn&#039;t have bothered learning the latter two formulations?

&lt;blockquote&gt;I would like to know what others think about the importance of having a good interpretation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, again you are reading a quantum foundations blog so you&#039;re unlikely to get an unbiased opinion here.  My advice is to go and read &quot;Speakable and Unspeakable&quot; by John Bell to find out why he said &quot;What could be more practical than a good interpretation?&quot; and see if you agree with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<blockquote><p>Looking back at all the QM courses I took including those in my undergrad I would like to make the following remark, I really really do not care about interpretations.</p></blockquote>
<p>Really?  Then why are you reading a blog about the foundations of quantum theory?  Seriously though, no one can be expected to care about everything they learn in their undergraduate courses, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that they shouldn&#8217;t be taught it.  From my point of view, I can say that solving endless variations on the atomic model with ever more sophisticated interactions included via perturbation theory was not my idea of a fun party, but it was good for me to learn it nonetheless.</p>
<p>My view on foundations is that it will be useful for physicists to have at least a little more understanding than is the norm at present, because these issues become important when applying quantum theory in new regimes.  For example, the arguments that raged over the quantum Zeno effect for several years could have been avoided if physicists had a more sophisticated understanding of the meaning and limited applicability of the projection postulate.  That&#8217;s just one example, but there are many others involving things like entanglement, naive reasoning about the &#8220;path&#8221; that a particle takes in an interferometer, macroscopic superpositions, etc.  As experiments become more sophisticated these things become more relevant and foundational studies are the right way to understand them.  Interpretations are a relevant component of this because they can often help to understand the errors in naive intuitions.</p>
<blockquote><p>I can’t say one interpretation is better than another because they do not lead a better theory with more predictive power. Also, can interpretations be falsified by experimental results?</p></blockquote>
<p>Even if they don&#8217;t they may lead to a new understanding of how to apply the theory domains where it is unclear how to proceed &#8211; quantum gravity being one of the main candidates.  Newton&#8217;s laws are (roughly) equivalent to Hamiltonian and Lagrangian mechanics.  Does this mean you shouldn&#8217;t have bothered learning the latter two formulations?</p>
<blockquote><p>I would like to know what others think about the importance of having a good interpretation.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, again you are reading a quantum foundations blog so you&#8217;re unlikely to get an unbiased opinion here.  My advice is to go and read &#8220;Speakable and Unspeakable&#8221; by John Bell to find out why he said &#8220;What could be more practical than a good interpretation?&#8221; and see if you agree with him.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Durham</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Durham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-166</guid>
		<description>[Note to Matt: wish this blog software had a preview option.]  To clarify, I do &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; think it is necessary to separate foundations from interpretations to discover new physics.  That sentence should have really been two sentences and implied that &lt;em&gt;foundational work&lt;/em&gt; is required to discover new physics, whether or not you attempt to separate out the study of interpretations (which would be difficult).  Hopefully that clears up that statement (which gives a false impression upon first reading it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Note to Matt: wish this blog software had a preview option.]  To clarify, I do <em>not</em> think it is necessary to separate foundations from interpretations to discover new physics.  That sentence should have really been two sentences and implied that <em>foundational work</em> is required to discover new physics, whether or not you attempt to separate out the study of interpretations (which would be difficult).  Hopefully that clears up that statement (which gives a false impression upon first reading it).</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Durham</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Durham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-165</guid>
		<description>Mark, I think there might be a need here to distinguish between &quot;interpretations&quot; and &quot;foundations&quot; when speaking of QM.  While it is perhaps debatable that specific interpretations have lead to new physics, it is quite clear that foundational studies &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; (most notably the field of quantum information).  Since it seems difficult (though not necessarily impossible) to separate the study of interpretations from the study of foundations I would argue it is, in some sense, a necessity if one is interested in discovering truly new physics.  One could always forego this and simply continually reapply the usual equations in a variety of ways to see what pops out, but, to me, foundational work is at the heart of &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; science.    Foundational studies are at the heart of true innovation in science, in my honest opinion.  In fact, having been an engineer for a number of years, I have had the growing feeling that physics is looking more and more like engineering.  Now, don&#039;t get me wrong, there is some truly fantastic innovation in engineering as well and even utilitarianism has its place, but making those conceptual leaps (or paradigm shifts if you subscribe to the Kuhnian view) requires studying the foundations of something.  In QM I would argue that this, in essence, partly entails studying interpretations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, I think there might be a need here to distinguish between &#8220;interpretations&#8221; and &#8220;foundations&#8221; when speaking of QM.  While it is perhaps debatable that specific interpretations have lead to new physics, it is quite clear that foundational studies <em>have</em> (most notably the field of quantum information).  Since it seems difficult (though not necessarily impossible) to separate the study of interpretations from the study of foundations I would argue it is, in some sense, a necessity if one is interested in discovering truly new physics.  One could always forego this and simply continually reapply the usual equations in a variety of ways to see what pops out, but, to me, foundational work is at the heart of <em>all</em> science.    Foundational studies are at the heart of true innovation in science, in my honest opinion.  In fact, having been an engineer for a number of years, I have had the growing feeling that physics is looking more and more like engineering.  Now, don&#8217;t get me wrong, there is some truly fantastic innovation in engineering as well and even utilitarianism has its place, but making those conceptual leaps (or paradigm shifts if you subscribe to the Kuhnian view) requires studying the foundations of something.  In QM I would argue that this, in essence, partly entails studying interpretations.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-163</guid>
		<description>I find this post and the letters to Physics Today very interesting. I am currently a PhD student in Physics and I have taken a course in QM with Prof. Griffiths in which he taught us consistent quantum theory.

Looking back at all the QM courses I took including those in my undergrad I would like to make the following remark, I really really do not care about interpretations. To me teaching and studying of such questions should probably be best done in the philosophy department.

I can&#039;t say one interpretation is better than another because they do not lead a better theory with more predictive power. Also, can interpretations be falsified by experimental results?

I would like to know what others think about the importance of having a good interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this post and the letters to Physics Today very interesting. I am currently a PhD student in Physics and I have taken a course in QM with Prof. Griffiths in which he taught us consistent quantum theory.</p>
<p>Looking back at all the QM courses I took including those in my undergrad I would like to make the following remark, I really really do not care about interpretations. To me teaching and studying of such questions should probably be best done in the philosophy department.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say one interpretation is better than another because they do not lead a better theory with more predictive power. Also, can interpretations be falsified by experimental results?</p>
<p>I would like to know what others think about the importance of having a good interpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-154</guid>
		<description>I would say that at every educational institution I&#039;ve attended, thermodynamics has been the least popular course (somehow weighted for general unpopularity of particular lecturers). I am not sure why; it seems to be more interesting to people that already understand it (such as the lecturer) than the people learning it, which sort of makes sense, in a way. Nevertheless, I am not entirely sure why thermo bothered so many people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say that at every educational institution I&#8217;ve attended, thermodynamics has been the least popular course (somehow weighted for general unpopularity of particular lecturers). I am not sure why; it seems to be more interesting to people that already understand it (such as the lecturer) than the people learning it, which sort of makes sense, in a way. Nevertheless, I am not entirely sure why thermo bothered so many people.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Durham</title>
		<link>http://mattleifer.info/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Durham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattleifer.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/teaching-quantum-theory/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m somewhat surprised that Thermodynamics is notably less popular to teach that Quantum Mechanics.  I am teaching both this semester and find they compliment each other quite nicely.  In fact I have thought for some time that they would make a nice two-course sequence for undergraduates at smaller institutions that only have single-semester courses in each.  I have one student who is taking both and I am finding that I am constantly cross-referencing the courses when I discuss things with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m somewhat surprised that Thermodynamics is notably less popular to teach that Quantum Mechanics.  I am teaching both this semester and find they compliment each other quite nicely.  In fact I have thought for some time that they would make a nice two-course sequence for undergraduates at smaller institutions that only have single-semester courses in each.  I have one student who is taking both and I am finding that I am constantly cross-referencing the courses when I discuss things with him.</p>
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